Comments on: MANUFACTURING DISSENT: Time To Call It What It Is…A Great Big Lie?* (updated)

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By: Paul in Canada

Paul in Canada — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 19:33:50 +0000

Somehow you’ve gotten the idea that, for the Wang and Murray are coming from equal but opposite perspectives, each with their own value and for the sake of the ‘fans’ (think of the children!) Wang should just be meeting her somewhere in the middle.

Fact is, Wang offering to build a $4 billion development in a Town/County crying for it, she acts like Queen of Hempstead all summer and then calls him on Friday (yeas THAT Friday) at 4:30?! You’ve lost sight of whose money this is. This is not a co-sponsored initiative. Wang has a right to be pissed for the way he’s been treated. Should he be sorry his frustration is starting to show (again, Friday at 4:30?!)? Its not up to him to be cordial at this point for anybody. Its your elected official who is dropping the ball here and, in the end, if you allow her to make him come off as the bag guy…

By: JKP

JKP — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 12:40:22 +0000

BD, I don’t get your point. Wang is spending tens of millions of dollars on the project just to make himself look good? Doesn’t make sense. Ego is one thing, but losing $70M on the LH project preliminaries + what he’s lost on the Isles surely isn’t (solely) about ego.
I’m guessing the reason they don’t want to scale the project down any further is because their return would be reduced and thus maybe financing becomes more difficult or they could make more $$ investing elsewhere. Or the hardball they’re playing is to minimize any more downscaling.

By: the1gwiz

the1gwiz — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 06:32:38 +0000

Trying to get past all the nonsense from both sides but I keep coming back to the same question: Kate Murray has repeatedly, on the record, used the excuse that she is a “judge” re: the Lighthouse and therefore, in this position, it would be “unfair” to sit down with Wang and Rechler and discuss or negotiate specifics of the project. Now, on the eve of a deadline that’s been in place for months, she picks up the phone near end of business on a Friday?
Not for nothing, but I’ve been losing 8 figures annually while sitting around waiting for a legislative body to come at me with SOMEthing, ANYthing concrete about what they wanted or expected from the project, make this Friday call to me, and then make a call to the local paper as soon as we hang up to make sure they’re play makes the highlight reel, then yeah, I’m a little peeved.
I’m really thinking that the backlash of the have/have-not war that’s currently raging in this country (that no one wants to specifically address) has taken some ludicrous turns, the most relevant to us here being how some of us begrudge a guy who’s been losing upwards of $20mil a year for a decade trying to turn it around and make something back off the deal. People, if there weren’t million- and billionaires out there finding ways to make a profit from owning a professional sports team, we wouldn’t have any professional sports teams.
Wang’s clear displays of frustration may not sit well with a lot of us, and it’s certainly not always helpful that he appears to wear his heart on his sleeve all the time. But at least from Wang I’m getting a reason WHY he’s so pissed at this point. From Murray and the TOH, I get: bull$#^% petitions and mailers started up (at taxpayer expense) asking the federal gov’t for stimulus money to do nothing but renovate a sports arena; a county exec claiming she can’t even attend an information session as she as an arbiter on the project, and arbiters of course should not make any effort to know anything about what they’ll be judging (aside from what the local political bosses want them to know, naturally); a phone call reaching out to Wang late in the business day on the eve of his deadline to take calls on offers for the team.
And Chris – they could grant Wang a new arena and if the SMG lease still holds, Wang still will not make any money.

By: Chris TMC

Chris TMC — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 04:44:04 +0000

Those signs were SO made by Patrick. Look at the font! The guy isnt even called Patrick by people, he is called “sign guy” lol! He makes signs all the time, at every game, at every lighthouse meeting, at every press conference, you name it. And he is always where the cameras will see him and his lovely daughter.

By: FantasyIsles

FantasyIsles — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 00:58:08 +0000

Ain’t been nothin’ but a dog-and-pony show from the get go, and it sure kept the audience distracted for awhile: Mad Mickey’s perpetual reign of Terra Chips; absurd cartoonish animation/live action Roger Rabbit player contracts; the itty bitty titty ruling committee; now-you-see-it- now-you-don’t three GM monty game… C ‘mon, folks! Really just your standard issue leveraged political land grab is all – and Sorry, Charlie! coulda pulled it off if he weren’t so damned greedy (or small hung). Team? Fans? Legacy? History? Quaintly romantic notions all… Bring back Spano!

By: Ethan K

Ethan K — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 20:21:52 +0000

They handed out signs OH MY GOD WHAT JERKS!!! HOW DISGUSTING! Nobody glued the signs to their hands, and forced them to wave it in the air. They wouldn’t have taken the signs if they didn’t want to.
It’s all nonsense at this point. It’s clear that Wang doesn’t want to just move the team, he’s fought very hard to work with the Board and get the project approved to keep his team on the Island. That’s what his plan has been. Kate Murray doesn’t like the project because it’s got the two words she hates to hear most: Democratic, and Development. This has gone on for years already, and I think Wang is right to say he wants an answer. He’s spent millions of dollars to keep the team where it is now, and the “loyal” fans haven’t exactly been filling up the arena ever since the team started to rebuild. I’ve been buying more and more tickets in the last couple seasons, because soon this team will have a shot to be contenders.
So please, don’t blame Charles Wang for trying to find get an answer. If you were losing 20 million dollars a year, in which time you were spending millions developing a real estate project that could create thousands of jobs and revitalize a disgusting area in a dying county, only to be continually strung along and not taken seriously, you would probably want an answer too.
And as far as his interview goes, in no way shape or form did he ruin the energy before the game. He constantly said we should be focusing on our team. The only thing that ruined the energy was the slumping play in the 3rd period. Let’s get real.

By: Chris

Chris — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 20:11:16 +0000

When are fans going to realize…. IT IS NEVER….EVER….”FOR THE FANS.”

That is an empty statement. It was empty when Bettman said the lockout was “for the fans.” It’s as empty as saying a new arena will be full…just because it’s new. The fans are always at the very bottom of their concern, but first to be spoken about to gather support. There is too much money, power, politics and everything in between at stake to care about the fans. They’re all too busy trying to figure out the best way to “move you up the value chain” (ie – get you to spend more). And I cannot believe some here are just now realizing that Wang is a real estate guy and not a hockey guy. Really? It took this long?

Here’s a new flash too… Wang will sell the team before he moves them anywhere if he does not get approval. Why? HE’S A REAL ESTATE GUY. He has ZERO interest in a sparkling new arena in any city. He wants the real estate development. The last thing in the world he wants right now is to pick them up and start over again somewhere else. Where else can he even go that has a major sports team already and large swaths of prime undeveloped land sourrounding it? This is it. This is his shot. If he does not get this deal, he is done with the Islanders. It’s the only reason he bought them in the first place.

BD – Thanks for writing this post. We have to stop worrying about the Islanders leaving and start seeing what is really going on here. They could grant Wang a new arena today and it will not be good enough for him. That sums it up right there.

PS – And if he does get approval, and builds everything they way he wants, are we all going to be surprised yet again when the prices are jacked so high they are unaffordable?? The funny part is there are Mets and Yankees fans reading this right now who will be “shocked and appalled” when that happens.

By: Chris TMC

Chris TMC — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 18:13:08 +0000

BattleOfNewYork, its not like you said- "Kate Murray said she wanted to meet with him. Then came the damaging quote from Wang spinning her into the bad guy. Just another selfish owner who only cares about himself." This did not go down like you are saying. The developers have been asking her to do this for like YEARS, and she specifically refused. Then hours before the time Wang said they would explore options, she makes this call- and turns it into even more of a media circus! There is far more to this than what you are saying here.

By: Justin Izzo

Justin Izzo — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 18:04:30 +0000

Hey B.D., I have to agree. I was sitting in section 116 when those signs were handed out. That was no accident. Consider that section 116 is directly at the center-ice line. Then, consider that there were a half-dozen photographers in front of Suozzi, et al., as they dropped the puck. Guess what will be in the background of that photograph?

For someone who supports this project, it disgusts me that they would do that, and it makes me re-evaluate my stance on who is the good guy and who is the bad guy. But it also does not surprise. Politics is just a game of who can out-muscle the other, and this project is no different. It’s just such a shame what the world has evolved (devolved?) into. And it’s also a shame that this “game” is just going to rob Islander fans of at the very least their arena of four decades and at the very worst their team entirely.

By: Mike Westchester

Mike Westchester — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 14:53:09 +0000

Wang did not have his suits give out signs, Patrick from one of the Lighthouse blog did because of rain. Read the blog. The information is there.
I don’t know all of the ins and outs on this situation because it’s grandstanding on both sides, but TOH’s notion of “negotiating” and Wang’s businessman persona are the problems smashing together. It’s a political season, so the TOH members who want to be re-elected are playing politics because it will get them re-elected. Wang is playing hardball because he’s a businessman who thinks his plan is small enough. Get to the table and talk this out like adults.

By: Tavares/Isles fall to Sid in debut, Wang image conscientious, Gionta beats Sabres | The Battle of New York :: A Tri-State Area Hockey Blog

Mon, 05 Oct 2009 04:54:43 +0000

[...] she wants to further discuss a potential agreement, that’s an obstacle? What to make of Hockey Independent BD Gallof’s interesting piece on how the owner had team personel give out signs to fans last night not just in support of the [...]

By: Jethro09

Jethro09 — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 04:05:41 +0000

I agree 100%, BD. Charles Wang’s “announcement” minutes before the drop fo the puck on the first home opener in years that had any kind of positive energy surrounding it was the stupidest and most asinine decision he could have made. The decision to announce that he’s shopping the team and the Lighthouse to other venues, minutes before the puck was dropped on a home opener in which the sell-out crowd was loud and full of positive energy, was so stupid, its as if he intentionally wanted to sabotage all the positive vibes coming out of that building last night.

Charles Wang needs to stop using the team and the fans’ emotions as pawns for his Lighthouse. Enough is enough. If he wants to sell or move the team, then do it already. Stop talking about it and threatening to do it. Just do it already. His using of the Isles and their fans to ram this project through is disgraceful.

For the record, I think the project needs to be approved and should have been voted on by the TOH years ago, but Wang is not going about getting his approval the right way. His setting of his own October 3 deadline was about as stupid as it gets. He knew he wouldn’t get approval by then, so setting the deadline on the date of the home opener was stupid.

And the signs in the crowd were clearly provided by the team/Lighthouse. I was at the game and sitting on the side of the arena opposite the benches. Those signs were only distributed to fans sitting in the 100′s behind the benches, so the cameras would get them. None of those signs were anywhere to be found anywhere else in the Coliseum. Is there no shame?

By: Jason

Jason — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 03:16:36 +0000

I agree Pete M.

By: Pete M

Pete M — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 01:41:29 +0000

Gee how we forget. !!!

Hasn’t Charles Wang held over 200 public meetings concerning the Lighthouse Project ?

I’ve talked to Development Think Tanks like Vision Long Island. Charles Wang
has amended the project 3 times (Remember the 60 story building first proposed ???)

He extended his hand to the TOH on many occasions to meet. Remember the meeting
that Kate Murray was supposed to go to with Wang and Suozzi and didn’t show up and blamed it on a scheduling conflict ????

How about at the Re-zoning hearing when the Town Board asked how many buildings were going to be part of the Lighthouse Project and how high were the buildings going to be or what happens when someone blows that RED LIGHT that was proposed as part of the traffic plan. Gee the town just didn’t know what the project looked like after all this time. You know the Lighthouse has renderings on their site of what the project looks like and Gee they’ve been on that site for a very long time. Should we think that the TOH is just computer illiterate or have they just decided to become ignorant for political purposes. WOW I DIDN’T KNOW THE TOWN PLAYED POLITICS. IT’S BEEN FIVE YEARS SINCE MR. WANG WON THE BID TO DEVELOP THE AREA AROUND THE COLISUEM…COUNT IT FIVE !!!!!!!

The Town of Hempstead – the TOWN THAT BUILT A BIG SMOKE STACK IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NASSAU HUB. The Town has a history of being anti development
and now they are showing that when Nassau County is at zero percent growth.

I don’t care who gave me the sign. I’ll wear that sign with a badge of honor. At least I know that that if the Lighthouse Project falls, young people will continue to leave at alarming rates. Companies will continue to leave Long Island. Developers “will” say nothing can be done in Nassau County. YOUR PROPERTY TAXES WILL GO UP…. GET IT !!!!!! Not in my backyard… SOON YOU WON’T HAVE A BACKYARD !!!

Typical LONG ISLAND POLITICS… People outside of the Island are laughing at us.
WHAT A JOKE !!!!!!!

By: John Saquell

John Saquell — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 00:57:43 +0000

I blame Chris Lee. He’s just such a cockwad, you know he’s the one that’s steering Good Ol Katie by the nips.

By: MJS

MJS — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 00:11:52 +0000

I am not a big fan of Wang using the fans as leverage against the town. That being said, Chris M is right, as Islanders fans we are almost required to support the Lighthouse or else the team will walk. What baffles me here is not the political posturing, the tough talk from both sides, or the realization that the fans are just being used by Wang, but rather that anyone (apparently including Mr. Gallof) is surprised that Charles Wang bought the team for the land, or is trying to turn a profit on the Lighthouse project. The automatic reply to anyone that can’t fathom that Wang is in it for the money is a 90′s style “duh.” Did anyone really believe that Charles Wang was going to all this trouble just for the sake of the team? The bottom line is that pushing the Lighthouse through will make any losses that Wang has taken on the team virtually disappear. This deal is a money maker and Wang is pursuing it like a guy who has already made billions and wants to make billions more. I certainly am not a fan of having my loyalty to the team screwed around with by him, but I am not shocked by it, and I will not now turn on the team’s owner for doing something that we all should have seen coming. I also, will not cut the town anymore slack on this. Right now it certainly seems as if they are being more reasonable, but what about over the summer when Wang couldn’t get Kate to answer the phone? She makes one call and she’s the good guy? Screw that. Her next call was to Edin Lakin to tell her all about it. Is there no spin on that as well? There are equal amounts of evil that exist on both sides. No one should be surprised by that. Also B.D., why not use this little site to ask people to pressure the developers to negotiate a little? If they do, then we can all win.